It is an exciting time for the Portland Winterhawks organization.
For the first time since 2014, they are back in the WHL Final, which starts Friday against the Moose Jaw Warriors.
On Wednesday and Thursday, the team started the next phase of building for the future by drafting 2009-born players during the U.S. Priority Draft and WHL Prospects Draft.
Last week, I sat down with Winterhawks owner and managing partner Michael Kramer. He and I have done this each of the last four seasons, so he was once again generous with his time. We spent approximately 50 minutes talking through topics surrounding the organization.
If you missed last year’s article, you can access it here.
When speaking with owners, I prefer to provide the entire quote so fans can hear exactly how my question was answered. Therefore, this article will slightly differ from my others as I will provide it in a Q&A format.
I will warn you: this is a LONG one, but also important.
Feel free to read parts now and return later if you want to. Perhaps read it while you enjoy a nice beverage or during an intermission of the WHL Finals.
See you around the rink!
Josh: Michael, thank you again for making time for this interview. To start, what would you say the organization’s status is in year four of your ownership?
Kramer: “In some respects, that may be a better queston for the fans. From our standpoint, since we’ve owned the team, this is the furthest we’ve gotten in the playoffs. From the on ice stuff, clearly, this is the most successful we’ve been. We have a great team, a great group of guys that are gellilng with really high expectations.
In terms of the business side and the fan’s side, this year we were up probably close to 20% in average attendance each game. Again, that is attributed to the Portland community. That is one of the first things we said when we first got here, we wanted to reconnect with the community. We continue to think that have a long way to go, too. We want to continue to do the things where we’ve made strides. There is a lot of support coming from the community, but I think we still have a lot to offer. That is going to keep driving me.”
The organization won the U.S. Division Business award in 2023-2024. What does that mean to you as an owner?
Kramer: “I’m incredibly proud of all the people. It starts with Mike Johnston as the President, Jeff McGillis, Lisa (Hollenbeck), Vicki (Talmadge), and everybody else. They’ve all done a really good job. We’ve done this (interview) since we’ve gotten involved. On the business side, I’m not sure on the exact numbers, but 90% of the business staff has turned over. We are really excited about the group that we have and really excited about the group that we have has been here for a couple of seasons at this point. They understand where things are going. Again, we have high expectations for where we go next season and the following season. We think we are just scratching the surface on what we can do.
The business side ties directly to the fan engagement side. There is no distinction between that, so if we are doing better as a business, providing a better product, that means we are providing a better experience for the fan.”
A lot of sports teams thrive off corporate sponsors and tickets. How has that been going for your organization as you compete with the other sports teams in town?
Kramer: “That was one of the hardest things for us is the corporate sponsorships since we bought the team during COVID. That was when everyone was cutting back. At that point in time, people were cutting back, and we weren’t doing a good job of partnering with our corporate sponsors that we did have. I don’t think they were feeling they were getting what they bargained for.
One of the important things that we’ve really focused on is how do we partner with those corporates and start to provide them and make them part of the overall team. We’ve really spent a lot of time the last couple of years focusing on the sponsors that we have and building that relationship to make sure that not only do we benefit from it, but they benefit from the relationship. Today, we probably have as good of a relationship as we’ve had in a long time. That is also showing in the sense that we have already started to think about next year and the new corporate sponsors that could be coming or that we are talking to. That list is growing every day right now. I hope that means we are doing something right. They aren’t going to come to us, or come back to us, if they aren’t getting something out of it.”
You mentioned the fan’s side of things. How is the season ticket holder base and how do you think they feel as a group
Kramer: “Our season ticket holder base is up since we’ve gotten involved, which is a great thing. When you really think about our season ticket holders, they are the heart and soul of the fan base. They are the die hards, who are here every day, every game, and they are the ones that watch the away games, and all of that. How do I think about them? I think about them as the heart and soul. Over my four years of being here, coming to games, I’ve gotten to know a lot of them. They recognize me, and I recognize them. I get to talk to them and ask them what we can be doing to make it a better experience on that side of it.
Again, I’m not going to be shy about saying under the old ownership and old management team, there was season ticket holders weren’t treated as well as they should be. We continue to focus on that, and my guess is that we probably aren’t treating them as well as we should be. The only thing we can do is keep trying to find ways to engage them. We need to treat them better because there is no question they are the heart and soul. They are coming out to every game and are there through it all.
Absolutely value the ones that have been here, and at the same time, we are trying to develop new ones. We want younger kids to get excited about us. I just continue to be amazed by people who have had tickets for 30 or 40 years. That is absolutely incredible, and I want that next generation who will own their tickets for 30 or 40 years to be part of it. That goes to not only what our role is within in the community and earn the trust in the community, but it also goes back to trying to build excigement not only on the team but hockey in general. We are very focused on developing youth hockey and ice sports as a whole within the Portland area. Working with the Junior Winterhawks and, frankly, some of the other organizations out there so more kids can fall in love with hockey and come out and see the guys play.”
What are fans asking you for when you talk to them?
Kramer: “It is some of the obvious, but the biggest is parking. Parking is probably the biggest thing that we keep hearing. The lack of parking when you have dual events between here and the Moda Center. That becomes pretty crowded here and the accessibility as well. We hear that a lot; I do hear you.
Next are the lines in the concourse with bathrooms and concessions. Fans are right. I walked the concourse the other day, and I was blown away with how long the lines were. They shouldn’t and can’t be that lolng. We have to work with Levy and the Rip City group, who manages them, to try and shorten those lines. Those would be two things.
People on Monday were telling me the same thing about wanting some younger fans in here, which was interesting to me. We should be doing more things around that for the fan experience. We also hear the fans want more access to the players and some of the stuff that is going on with the organization. We are going to try more on that type of thing.
However, frankly, a lot of this is out of our control. I hear about the fryers as well, every year. That is a common theme as well. The food product and pricing, is just unfortunately not in our control.”
You’ve talked every year we do this about community involvement initiatives. How have you seen changes over the course of the last year?
Kramer: “The first thing that we did was tried to integrate the Winterhawks with the youth programs. Historically, they were run separately, but now we have been run together. The Junior Winterhawks are getting access to the knowledge of our coaching staff on how to develop kids from both a hockey standpoint and off the ice. The other thing I hear a lot is you are only focused on the big team. That couldn’t be further from the truth. The number of kids that are ultimately that are going to make it to the level of these guys that are playing in the playoffs is very, very low. I just want to make sure that kids can have access to hockey. I want them to have access to play hockey or ice sports as a whole.
One of the things that we really want to focus on is trying to get more exposure for girls. It breaks my heart that some of the girls’ teams don’t have as much access to ice. So if we get more access to ice, I will make sure that happens.
We always use the phrase, ‘Hockey is for everybody’ and I want everybody to experience that regardless if they are going to be a house-league player or a NHL player. The skills and the character that is created from playing youth sports, learning how to win, lose, be on a team, learning time management, and how to practice at something you care about, that is all stuff that is going to be valuable in life, regardless with what they do.”
How far do you see the community involvement ring expanding from Portland city limits?
Kramer: “We would love to have it be as big as possible, but realistically, what we have to do is start with Portland. We need to make sure we are doing what is right by Portland. Then, if we can do that, we can start to expand after that on the community or youth side. This is a grossly under-iced community. Anything we can do to get more sheets of ice and more opportunities will be good.
Also, with the community, we are trying to use our role in the community to do good things. We teamed up with Sunset High School this year, we owe them a lot as they take in our players and help educate them and work with us on that, so we worked with them on the Cram The Stands program for child cancer. We are supporting the Boys and Girls Club and sending our players there. So, we are trying to reach out to other areas within the community to help. So it goes beyond just playing hockey, but helping the community as a whole be a better place.”
Is part of that trying to reach the younger fans or something else?
Kramer: “It is a great benefit to have, but I also think part of it is a Mike Johnston thing. This is a beautiful thing about the organization; we want to make our players better people. If we can fight for the Cram The Stands, that had nothing to do with hockey. That had everything to do with being supportive of a good cause that was out there and helping somebody else. We are not going to the Boys and Girls Club to say, ‘Come sit in our seats.’ We are going there because there is a valuable lesson that these boys can teach those boys and girls at those clubs. Our players also learn from them as well. Not everything is about hockey; far from it, it is about being good partners.”
Here is my annual question of asking about the streaming service. I know you watch all the games and are a user of the product. What is your opinion on the quality of the streaming service?
Kramer: “I still have not missed a game yet, and I think we have a long way to go. The content that comes out of it is great, it is an entertaining product. I think we need to as a league continue to improve the minimum standards at each team’s level so if you watch a Portland game you know what quality you are getting, but if you go somewhere else, you get the same quality. There needs to be consistency, and we need to drive that quality up. It isn’t there right now.
The other thing we’ve done a good job with is on linear TV. We’ve got some of our games on there. Some of the viewership numbers that are coming back are really, really strong. We know that there is a demand for our product. Our TV partners with KOIN and CW have been great for us. You may want to ask them, but I think they really enjoy having us. Tonight, we have all four networks here with the playoffs.
It is a going to be how we expand this sport by providing a better viewing product. There are only so many people you can put in the stands. I want to make sure we have access to our product to people who can’t make it into the stands.
We have a long way to go, so there is an upside, but the standard needs to be raised.”
The new WHL Commisioner has taken over and has connection to Portland. How have you as an owner and member of the board of governors seen him get started in his tenure?
Kramer: “I’m super excited for Dan (Near). I was fortunate enough to be on the committee, and one of the members that was involved in recruiting him and hiring him. I’ve probably had more of an opportunity to sort of interact with him going through the process. I’ve been super impressed with him on everything.
Yeah, it is great that he is from Portland, but I think that could probably help and hurt us at the same time. I think Dan comes as a really good thinker, but more imporrtantly, he comes as a really good doer. I think he is going to be able to think about things as well as implement what he thinks about. I’m excited about what he can do as he gets more up-to-speed. I’ve had a lot of conversations with him about where he wants to take this, which is exciting. He’s not coming in here to babysit the league. What he’s coming in to do is help all the owners grow the league. I think that is the exciting part of it.”
Last year you shared about your desire to host the Memorial Cup. Do you have any updates you can share on that front?
Kramer: “The Western Hockey League will be able to host the Memorial Cup again in the 2025-2026 season. We are evaluating the bid. Historically, the CHL has not been too open to U.S. teams on hosting that, but we are hoping they will be more open on that after Saginaw hosts. They are a real interesting situation, so we will be keeping a close eye on how that goes.
I would love nothing more than to host the Memorial Cup.”
(I interrupted him) Are you saying you are putting a bid in?
Kramer: “We are evaluating. We are definitely evaluating everything. It comes at a great time, as it will be our 50-year anniversary, so I can’t think of anything better than 50 years of Portland Winterhawks hockey being showcased at the Veterans Memorial Coliseum. We are looking at it and evaluating everything that goes into it.
We are having conversations with the folks from around the town to see how supportive people are going to be. It would be a big boom for the city, but it is also a big lift for the city. It can’t just be us as the Portland Winterhawks, it has to be a team effort. Sport Oregon, Jim Etzel and his staff, have been great and really supportive and helping us think through some of the things that would be involved. There are other organizations out there as well helping.
We have to make a decision if we are going to bid within the next several months. So we are in the process of trying to figure it out. We have some yeses and some nos. If there are more nos, it is simple, we stop. If it is a yes, well, that’s when the real work starts with putting together the bid package. I can’t think of a better town to have it as we have everything the CHL would want for a successful Memorial Cup.”
I imagine one of the things the CHL is going to look at are the arena(s). Are there any updates to the VMC coming that would be part of this or separately?
Kramer: “They have announced they are going to start renovations in the VMC, and they start this summer. It is a two-year program, so we are sitting here in our offices now, but we won’t be here in June. We have to move out of the building this summer. That is great because that means they are doing work.
Going back to the Memorial Cup, you have to have a certain level of facility in order to host. We do think if the work they are proposing gets done over the next two years, we will have a great facility to do that. There are still things that we will have to do in order to meet the bid standards, but that goes from fixing the bones of the VMC, it is a very old, beautiful building, all the way to the top. It needs upgrades such as electrical and ADA compliance, among other things.
This summer, there aren’t going to be a lot of visible changes to it. The next summer, though, that is where some of the exciting stuff comes in. They are going to re-do the bowl, reduce the number of seats a little bit, put in wider seats so they are more comfortable for everyone, and have every seat work again.
We are slowly but surely adding other experiences. We have been working with the Rip City guys on having a little bit of a VIP room, we have the beer gardens, and just adding those types of things. For some people, coming to an arena and watching the game is great and enough. For others, they want a bigger and maybe better experience. We are trying to focus on both of those experiences during this as well. Hopefully, over the next two years, fans will see some real changes. We are working very, very closely with the city and Rip City about trying to make those improvements.
On the branding side, we have been working around the arena. There have been some big changes over the last couple of years. Even as late as today, we made some changes in the tunnel as we got new signage. We’ve added more banners and updated how those are displayed. The city of Portland and the Rip City guys have been good about working with us and trying to make sure that this place does feel like our home. We want it to feel like home for the players, but also for fans to be excited about it.”
I have to ask: would the potential Memorial Cup bid also include an update to the Moda Center? Are there any updates you can share on the status of getting the ice plant fixed?
Kramer: “Yes and no. My sense is two fold, though. It wouldn’t be ready by then, and second, it comes at the same time as potential playoffs for the NBA, so we might have a conflict on that side of it. I don’t think we are expecting that. If we are going to go forward with it, we would go forward with it at the VMC. If we have the opportunity to do it over there at the Moda, I’m sure we will have those conversations. I wouldn’t count on that, though.
I hear all the fans who miss the Moda Center games. I’ve never had the experience of seeing a game over there. I know the city of Portland and Rip City is open to it, but we have to get the ice plant fixed. They have their own list of renovations to get through. Clearly, we would have games that would be great over there, like Teddy Bear Toss, New Year’s Eve, Opening Night, and maybe playoffs. It is great when we sell the VMC out, but we could sell even more if we had it across the street.”
How about the status of WAHA and how healthy are they as an organization?
Kramer: “It is healthy, good, and something we are always, always, always focused on. We love the fact that we are a good hockey team but take responsibility of getting our boys support with their education. Fans should buy more 50/50 tickets and Jersey-Off-The-Backs, but in all seriousness, it is such a special organization and concept. The concept of what they provide is unreal.
The boys come in here and leave with either a pro contract or their college paid for. It is interesting because, it is much more certain than the NCAA, ironically. Everybody talks about getting a college scholarship. You get a scholarship for one year, but that could get taken away. 100% of our kids leave here with either a pro contract or college tuition paid for, and you can’t say that about college hockey.”
Speaking of college hockey, there are a lot of rumors about the NCAA changing their rules about allowing CHL players after they are done in juniors. Do you have any preference or opinion on this topic?
Kramer: “I’m all for giving the boys options. Our players are amateur players. The rules of prohibiting CHL players from playing NCAA conceptually don’t make sense to me. Someone can try to explain it to me because maybe I don’t have all the information, but it doesn’t make sense. I’m all for allowing them to have the flexibility to play where they want to play. I just don’t think a player should be prohibited.
My view is the CHL and WHL are going to provide the best development experience for any player who wants to push it to the next level. My worldview is that everyone should come here when they are 16-18, and from there, it is then up to me to provide them with the best experience possible that they want to stay here beyond that.”
What are you most proud of so far after four years of ownership?
Kramer: “It remains the guys. In some respects, I love that they allow me to be part of their dreams. It is an exciting part of being an owner. I don’t think people really, truly understand when they come out to these games, and they watch these players play, what these players have done to prepare for that game they are watching. It impresses me from top to bottom. The team we have this year is filled with outstanding people. Yes, they are great at hockey, but they are great people who are going to do incredibly well in anything they do. Letting me be a small part of it is something I’m proud of. It is my obligation and responsibility as an organization to make sure we treat them well. At the same time, the only way we can do that is if we are good partners to Portland.
One of the things I’ve learned in the last four years is how passionate sports fans are. I’ve always been a sports fan. How passionate sports fans just amazes me. It is exhilarating, honestly. It puts a little bit of pressure on you to make sure you can live up to that.”
How is the connection going with Winterhawks alumni?
Kramer: “It continues to get better, but there are two ways to look at this. Younger alumni, those that have left within the last four years, I was able to develop a direct relationship with them while they were here. Then, the older guys, the guys that haven’t been here in a while. I’ve gotten the opportunity to connect and meet lots of them recently. We had the Cam Neely jersey retirement, and I think Cam was very emotionally taken by that. The fact that he had the opportunity to come back here and be recognized for what he did. His whole team was here on that night. He still thinks about that. The ability to do things like that where we thank a guy like Cam for what he did is important.
It goes beyond that to other players, too. I didn’t get the opportunity to see them while they were here, but I’ve started developing relationships with them. They will come to New York and text me. Some of them are in the playoffs right now and are going back and forth, so we are texting. It is exciting because everyone who goes through that locker room, we owe them a thank you.
It is really easy to focus on the Cam Neelys of the world, or the Seth Jarvis, the Nino Niederreiter, or Cody Glass of the world. There are a lot of other alumni that have come through there that have done amazing things in life that make a difference like being doctors, lawyers, electricians, and all sorts of other jobs they are passionate about.
One of the things that is interesting to me is how they were when they were here. Especially those that came through during Mike Johnston’s era. The respect they have for Mike Johnston and what he gave them as a coach and mentor is a consistent theme that I hear. Because of how he treated them, they have a special spot for Portland and the Winterhawks as a whole.”
How has the addition of Wenatchee impacted you as an owner and the organization having another member of the U.S. Divisioin?
Kramer: “It didn’t really impact me as an owner. I don’t know where I fall into the tenure of owners. The only thing I can do is try to be a productive governor and 1-of-22 on that side. I want to really focus on the objective that the Winterhawks are the best they can possibly be, but at the same time, we can’t have a situation where one team is up high here, and the other teams are way down here. As governors, we have to think about this as a WHL and CHL as a whole. It is important to be a good governor/partner with the other owners and make the tide rise for everyone. It has been great to have new people come over the last four years to meet all the other owners and develop those relationships. Even though most of them don’t like Portland, they’ve been very open-arms with me. It has been great so far, and I’m hoping it continues to be positive.”
What is the biggest hurdle or challenge you are facing as an organization?
Kramer: “It is a long list (said with a laugh). I want to take this into a couple of different areas.
Facilities. We want to improve the experience. Improving the experience that we can provide will actually help us get bigger crowds. I was talking with a couple of the boys the other day. I asked them how important it was to them to have big crowds and how much difference it makes on the bench. I was blown away at how much they said it makes a difference about how they play on the ice. Being able to provide a better experience will help us on multiple levels. I do want to make the Winterhawks, for lack of a better way to say it, the pride of Portland as a city. I want Portland people to say and be proud that the Winterhawks are part of this community. In order for us to do that, we have to reach out to them. We have to earn that way into it. That is why we are reaching out in different ways.
On the hockey side, one of the big challenges for us is we want more U.S. players and more exposure into the United States. I don’t think the United States markets totally understand what the WHL is, or the CHL is, and how important it is to the total hockey ecosystem. Obviously, all of Canada gets it. We’ve done a great job of explaining who we are relative to some of other leagues and relative to the NCAA.
The other challenge is going back to where we started, getting more people excited about hockey. I want to start from the bottom up and teaching people about hockey and getting them exposed to it. We’ve seen Tom’s Tykes program help people who may not have the opportunity or resources to be able to play have the chance to experience our great game. We provide free coaching, ice time, and equipment.”
To conclude our conversation, can you help fans try to understand how much you, as the Portland Winterhawks, can control about their game-day experience compared to the city of Portland, Rip City, and everyone else?
Kramer: “Simply put, we can control what players we put on the ice. We can control that, but that’s about where it stops.
When it comes to parking, concessions, and those things, we don’t have much control over that. That said, one of the things we have done and continue to do is work with those who have the control to explain our objectives and get things changed.
I will tell you, in the last four years, our relationship with the Rip City folks has gotten positive. We have an open line of communication we didn’t have before. We both believe our success, our mutual success, is tied together. We really are working with them. They are working with us. I’m trying to make changes, but some things don’t change that quickly.”
(I interrupted again) How about ticket prices? It can be costly for a family to attend. Some may not know how to save money on fees. Can you help people understand that more?
Kramer: “A lot of that goes back to what I can control. I can’t control the Ticketmaster fees, the parking charges, or the concessions. I’m very focused on that, and am trying to find new ways to do that. Please call us directly, don’t go through Ticketmaster. We have also tried to provide and work with the concessions on providing a package where you get a drink with a ticket. I’m trying to find ways to buy down the costs and increase the experience at the same time. We are open to all of that, but it doesn’t just change over the course of a year.
I will end with, we are not perfect, and I’m sure I will get beat up over that. I’m sure everyone will agree that we aren’t perfect on it, but we are is passionate about doing the right things and providing a good experience. We will keep pushing each other. When we sit there all the time, we ask, ‘what if we did it this or that way or what would the impact of that be?’ Always thinking and improving.
Come out and support us. I appreciate the fans and want you to be a part of this experience.”
